Posts by Number 6

40

Has Anything Really Changed For JWs In The Last 10 Years?

by minimus in

jw
friends

2020 is days away.

has anything really changed for the witnesses or the religion?

?.

Number 6

I started a thread a few months ago about how utterly unrecognizable the religion of my uprbringing is now.

I have been out since late 1990, just before my 21st birthday and even after not getting online until 2000 I did still recognise it. Not any more.

In a matter of days, people born in the 1970's will start to enter their 50's. Me among them. When I was growing up, to make any kind of reference to the world being around in 2000, let alone 2020 would have been considered extremely weak. I lost count of the times in the 70s and 80s people used to say to me at meetings that I would never finish school. Better to pioneer and fulfill my potential that way for the short time remaining.

Now... my horizon is filled with things like my grown up daughters having kids and planning their weddings. And for myself planning retirment within the next decade. Far from not finishing school, that event is now some 30+ years in the past!

To answer your question what has changed? Style over substance certainly, but ultimately just the same old religion with its "end any day now" mantra.

They'll still be at it when I'm long dead.

22

The Faithful and Discreet Slave Just "have" The Truth

by Number 6 in

in the late 80's when i was in my late teens i used to with my then wife to be attend a monday night pre-watchtower study at a local elders house.. this guy was revered as very knowledgable and he was scholarly and interesting to listen to; so at the time it was a genuinely enjoyable monday evening spent with oftentimes discussion would veer far of the subject at hand and lasting to well after 11pm some evenings.. this particular night, the subject up for discussion was "the faithful and discreet slave" and how we should be obeying them without question.

right in the middle of the study this elder said as a question not in the wt article; "how do we really know the current fds as lead by the governing body are the real deal.

i mean what actual proof do we have?".

Number 6

In the late 80's when i was in my late teens I used to with my then wife to be attend a Monday night pre-Watchtower study at a local elders house.

This guy was revered as very knowledgable and he was scholarly and interesting to listen to; so at the time it was a genuinely enjoyable Monday evening spent with oftentimes discussion would veer far of the subject at hand and lasting to well after 11pm some evenings.

This particular night, the subject up for discussion was "The Faithful and Discreet Slave" and how we should be obeying them without question. Right in the middle of the study this elder said as a question not in the WT article; "how do we REALLY know the current FDS as lead by the Governing Body are the real deal. I mean what actual proof do we have?"

For a moment we were all kind of stunned, and then realised he was for real. At the time we all fumbled about making the vaguest of replies about who else could it be and it was the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, but that was about it.

Then he followed up with "In reality, we have no proof, we just take there word for it" then he kind of caught himself and started parroting WT drivel and falling back into line. But for that one second, I saw his veil fall. Like I said he was an intelligent guy, a qualified engineer with a good grasp of language and could hold his own in an arguement.

For the JW's the FDS just "have" the truth and that's it. They don't question. I wonder how it took me so long to see the light. But I did. I often wondered what became of him and then something happened today that made me write this.

I met him in a local chemist whilst picking up a prescription. "Hello" he says to me, "long long time since I saw you".

I havent been near a KH in nearly 30 years, I'm nearly 50 him in his 80s.

I replied "still banging doors telling all the world is ending anyday now ______"

He just looked old and sad, and I hadnt the heart to ridicule him or tell him how wrong he was, but again for that brief second, I saw it in his eyes; the guard let down. We parted company and I felt just an overwhemling sadness for such a bright man all those years ago; reduced to this old man, shuffling to and fro in the name of "the truth".

He, and so amy other miliions, deserved better.

19

The Craziness of an Average Bible Study

by Number 6 in

last week i posted a thread asking about who knew any "real anointed" and got some cracking replies.. that got me to thinking, as someone brought up in the 70's and 80's in the watchtower religion, my experience of bible studeis in their homes and those who made it to the hall were mostly batshit crazy or at least people with some serious quirks.. i'll relate a few, none of whose names i remember with any clarity.. in our cong we had an older couple who were from london, but who had been in the 1950's in the circuit work in the mid west usa.

they brought along some woman one night they had started a study with who told everyone cheerfully she was a recovering alcoholic and this was her cure (coming to the meetings).

this went on for a few weeks until one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and i mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine.

Number 6

Last week I posted a thread asking about who knew any "real anointed" and got some cracking replies.

That got me to thinking, as someone brought up in the 70's and 80's in the Watchtower religion, my experience of bible studeis in their homes and those who made it to the hall were mostly batshit crazy or at least people with some serious quirks.

I'll relate a few, none of whose names I remember with any clarity.

In our cong we had an older couple who were from London, but who had been in the 1950's in the circuit work in the mid west USA. They brought along some woman one night they had started a study with who told everyone cheerfully she was a recovering alcoholic and this was her cure (coming to the meetings). This went on for a few weeks until one night they brought her to the memorial and she was royally pissed, and I mean barely able to stand; and went up to the platform table and necked some wine. Looking back this poor woman was in serious need of professional help and the last thing she needed was the local cong dispensing their WT wisdom as a cure for alcoholism.

She stopped coming after a few months and I have no idea what happened to her. I hope for her sake she got the help she needed.

Another time I went to an older mans house with an elder who had started a bible study and this guy was telling us that the instructions for building a time machine were buried in the bible. He was studying with various religions to see if he could find the key to how to do it. What amazed me was that this elder actually entertained him! Another one that didnt make the grade.

A final one was back in the 70's my mother started a study with what appeared to be a relativley stable woman of her own age who for some reason couldnt say the name Jehovah and out of the "Live Forever" book cut out all the reference to the name. Needless to say another one who never got to baptism.

My point is that of all the hundreds if not thousand of studies that went on in the hall I attended over a 20 year period, perhaps only a dozen tops made it to full bona fide witnesses. The majority of converts were brought ups.

My take on it is also that going door to door, the JW's only seriously seem to engage in people with personality disorders or very needy people just looking for company but who by the nature of their personality defects, never would be ideal witness candidtates.

I'd be interested to hear you experiences...

43

Did You Know Any "Genuine"" Old School Anointed?

by Number 6 in

growing up in scotland in the 1970s in scotland the anointed were few and far between, but we had one old dude in our cong who claimed to be one of the anointed.

in the days when it was taken seriously.. i'd be curious how you viewed them.

thing is, he wasn't an elder, or even a ministerial servant, just a plain old publisher.. but he was revered like he had a hotline to jesus.. the other week i was talking to a friend of similar age to me but who hung around the wt a lot longer than i did, and he just commented "oh him... he was a doddery old fool who used to just sit and piss himself.

Number 6

Hey BluesBrother, not mocking anyone but quoting my friend.

It comes to us all in the end. I just feel sorry for these people going into old age with this false hope. To be fair I remember him as a decent old bloke from the early days of the WT. I just hated the way he was idolised for no reason other than he got the winning lottery ticket of heaven when the rest of us didn't.

43

Did You Know Any "Genuine"" Old School Anointed?

by Number 6 in

growing up in scotland in the 1970s in scotland the anointed were few and far between, but we had one old dude in our cong who claimed to be one of the anointed.

in the days when it was taken seriously.. i'd be curious how you viewed them.

thing is, he wasn't an elder, or even a ministerial servant, just a plain old publisher.. but he was revered like he had a hotline to jesus.. the other week i was talking to a friend of similar age to me but who hung around the wt a lot longer than i did, and he just commented "oh him... he was a doddery old fool who used to just sit and piss himself.

Number 6

Growing up in Scotland in the 1970s in Scotland the anointed were few and far between, but we had one old dude in our cong who claimed to be one of the anointed. In the days when it was taken seriously.

I'd be curious how you viewed them. Thing is, he wasn't an elder, or even a Ministerial Servant, just a plain old publisher.

But he was revered like he had a hotline to Jesus.

The other week I was talking to a friend of similar age to me but who hung around the WT a lot longer than I did, and he just commented "oh him... he was a doddery old fool who used to just sit and piss himself. No more likely to be going to heaven than you or I"

So...looking back, how did your cong view them? Ultra spiritual due to being members of the FDS or just the same as the rest?

24

Upon learning of a terminal illness would you return to being a JW to appease your family?

by NVR2L8 in

this is an hypothetical question...i am doing well.

but i was thinking about how my jw family, grandchildren and all will feel when their inactive grandfather dies with no hope of being reunited in paradise.

of course there would be immediate rejoicing if i came back to the "truth" and a surge of conditional love from the "friends".

Number 6

Diagnosed and survived Non Hodgkins Lymphoma this year.

Despite the possibility of my demise, returning to the Watchtower never even crossed my radar. Ever.

32

30 years after leaving utterly unrecognisable

by Number 6 in

this is the first time i have posted on here in many years..... i seldom visit now although this forum was instrumental to me in gaining my sanity in the early 2000's and recovering from the watchtower religion.. by chance tonight i was on youtube and caught a jw.org video which out of curiosity prompted me to look at the official website and amongst other things i looked up the music section.. why that i hear you ask?

music is my passion and nothing reminds me more or evokes more memories than the kingdom songs i grew up listening to.. i am 49 years old and my mother was baptised in 1974. i grew up in the era of pink songbooks and green bibles.

of the theology of fred franz and types and anti-types.

Number 6

This is the first time I have posted on here in many years....

I seldom visit now although this forum was instrumental to me in gaining my sanity in the early 2000's and recovering from the Watchtower religion.

By chance tonight I was on YouTube and caught a JW.org video which out of curiosity prompted me to look at the official website and amongst other things I looked up the music section.

Why that I hear you ask? Music is my passion and nothing reminds me more or evokes more memories than the Kingdom Songs I grew up listening to.

I am 49 years old and my mother was baptised in 1974. I grew up in the era of pink songbooks and green bibles. Of the theology of Fred Franz and types and anti-types. Anyone who couldn't explain 1914 and the 7 times was considered weak. We studied the yellow book "Gods Kingdom of a Thousand Years" and other "deep" material at our group studies. Watchtower Studies were 40 paragraphs long and regularly overran on Sunday mornings.

But above all else it was the songs that evoked the most memories of that era.

When I got online in 2000 it was amazing to me that the 1995 "generation" teaching had happened, but overall, the religion I grew up in was still that: recognisable to me as such.

Now in 2019 it has changed to the point i no longer recognise it. Nothing. Presentation and media dominate. Teachings take second place to appearance.

And above all else all the songs have changed.

I despise this religion and all that it represents. But..... when i listen to those old songs I remember a time in my youth now long gone; and its really weird.

I hope there are those my age out there who know where I am coming from.

35

Critical Differences: JW's Today Vs The Past

by metatron in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses have always been a fringe, anti-intellectual movement, almost by definition.

there is nothing new about faddish health concerns, attitudes that ignore history and science or even beliefs that defy common sense ( false prophecy for what, 130+ years?).

however, there are two differences with jw's of the past that will prove critical for the survival of the organization today.. 1) poor financial conditions - in the past, it was possible to hold all sorts of nonsensical beliefs and still be a functional member of the human race, generally.

Number 6

I think Londo and Old Goat have it bang on.

The Watchtower of today isn't a patch on its former self. I grew up in this organisation in the 70's and even back then there was a sense of urgency and anticipation. The brothers and sisters studied 'deep' articles and prided themselves on knowing the detail of prophecy, to the last detail. I can remember sitting in living rooms at group studies poring over books like 'Babylon the Great' and 'The Nations Shall Know..." etc. Its all crap of course but at the time we took it deadly seriously.

It was considered a shameful thing if you didn't know the 'basics' such as how to explain how the 1914 date was arrived at. [pre 95].

Nowadays the average publisher would struggle to explain anything other than 'do what the organisation says' and repeat verbatim whats in the latest dumbed down publication.

I can remember being at doors with publishers who would engage in lengthy intellectual conversations with people and take the time to study and research what they believed in.

OK now I know its all bullshit, but the point is that we believed in it and prided ourselves in using publications and the bible to KNOW, UNDERSTAND AND more importantly DEFEND what we believed in.

Today coming home from work, I saw the new lite witnesses outside the railway station.... just standing a good 10 feet away from their cart with their literature on it... desperately hoping not to be engaged in conversation.

If this had been my life as a JW I might not have had much to complain about!

The JW organisation is a shadow of its former self.

Maybe in 100 years they will be the answer to a Trivial Pursuit question "Name the american religious group who used to preach door to door but fizzled out in the early 21st century?"

We can live in hope!

Craig

36

What will the world be like in 2100?

by slimboyfat in

very interesting video from futurist james burke.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24331106.

he believes scarcity will be a thing of the past because of nanofabricators (sounds like a replicator for star trek fans).

Number 6

"WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 2100?

Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent days among serious students JWN. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 2100 will mark the end of war and famine covering 6000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion".

Seriously? Impossible to predict. Like comparing 1913 to 2013. My view tends towards humanity self destructing but I hope for my kids and their kids sake it gets even better than now.

Craig

62

7/15 WT- Insane, Far Fetched, Narcissistic "New Light " about the FDS

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know this article has been discussed, re-hashed upside down in past threads.

but there were at least 2 points i discovered in here that i felt were pertinent and important to bring out concerning the total control and narcissistic tendencies that these wt leaders possess on the governing body, i.e.

alleged " faithful slave " .

Number 6

Having read this thread and several others like it these last months has got me to thinking.

This is the tipping point where any credibility they had as a spiritual organisation has gone.

As long as they vaguely identified the ‘Faithful and Discreet slave’ as some globe spanning group of people who all had an input into the theology of the Watchtower and never demanded loyalty to a small group of individuals, they could still claim a degree of plausibility with not only the rank and file but other religious groups.

They could always claim they were serving Jesus and Jehovah as an entirety with a humble approach, no one better than anyone else.

Now though, they have shown their hand and as punkofnice points out there is no way back.

Their current stance makes them out to be a cult with loyalty demanded to specific individuals in one place.

It will be interesting to see where this takes them.

Craig